The new Narendra Modi government gave the Defence Research and
Development Organization (DRDO), a major vote of confidence in its first
budget by substantially hiking both the revenue and capital resources
available to India's premier weapons development agency. However it is
understood that this hike is also intended to help DRDO complete
existing projects and pave the way for future programs many of which
will be pursued in mission mode. The idea is to create a substantial
military industrial complex in India which not only caters to domestic
requirements but also dovetails with India's wider geo-economic strategy
with respect to manufacturing exports and job creation. DRDO today is
being asked to not merely catch up with the west in the realm of
military technology but actually create 'technological surprise' for the
rest of the world.
DRDO itself realizes that for India to
achieve this objective, the path taken may be a little different from
that taken by say the United States or Russia. For instance while DRDO
is being boosted by the current regime, the Indian defence market is
also being opened up to greater foreign direct investment. DRDO will
also be given more freedom in choosing production partners for its
products many of whom are likely to be from India's private sector in
times to come. Geek at Large caught up with the Scientific Advisor to
the Raksha Mantri and Director General DRDO, Dr Avinash Chander to
discuss these issues and more...
Saurav Jha: Dr Chander, DRDO's
prowess in the area of strategic missile systems is now accepted by even
your worst detractors, but the same cannot be said about tactical
missile systems yet. How would you respond to this?
Avinash Chander:
Major systems that have already been realized in the tactical domain
include the Akash surface to air missile (SAM) which has gone into bulk
production and recent trials from production lot conducted by the Indian
Army (IA) have been quite successful. IA will induct this system
shortly. The Indian Air force has of course already inducted the Akash.
Then
you have the Astra air to air missile (AAM) which has undergone
successful launches from a Su-30MKI and will soon be tested from the
same against actual aerial targets. We are very confident about trials
against actual targets since the Astra has already intercepted aerial
targets when launched from the ground. I think we have a world class
system on our hands here with the Astra. Third on this list, is the
Indo-Israeli Long Range Surface to Air Missile (LRSAM) which is headed
for trials in September if things go according to plan.
So there has been significant growth even in the tactical missiles arena domestically.
Saurav
Jha: So in that context what are some of the new tactical missile
systems being developed under DRDO's recently unveiled 'missile autonomy
mission?'
Avinash Chander: Our aim via the 'missile autonomy
mission' is to cover a wider space as it were. Let me outline some of
the new systems being progressed. A new man portable anti-tank guided
missile (ATGM) for which design is over and hardware is getting
developed. A Longer ranged SAM with a range of 200-250 km is on the
drawing board. A quick reaction SAM which can track on move is
well-advanced in the design stage. An anti-radiation missile and a long
range anti-ship missile which can prevent aircraft carriers from coming
within 1500-2000 km of our shores are also being pursued.
Saurav Jha: What is the status of the anti-radiation missile and the long range anti-ship missile?
Avinash
Chander: For the anti-radiation missile design is in progress, in fact
hardware is being readied for the first trials. We expect successful
trials of this ARM from an aircraft in about the next three years.
The
long range anti-ship missile is on the drawing board, and we are
confident that in about six years we would be able to get it ready. The
long range anti-ship missile is going to be a ballistic missile with a
seeker which can hit ships at long range.
Saurav Jha: So this is a rough equivalent of the Chinese DF-21D anti-ship ballistic missile? An anti-access/area denial system?
Avinash
Chander: Something like that yes. So as you can see almost the entire
spectrum of missile capability is being addressed. And addressed to meet
state of the art requirements thereby giving full teeth to our armed
forces.
Saurav Jha: Coming back to the Akash, is there a move to upgrade the Akash, with say the addition of an onboard seeker?
Avinash
Chander: We are examining various options for Akash Mk-II so that it
can operate over a larger profile. One of the options is putting a
seeker on board. Of course it not simply a matter of adding a seeker
since it changes the entire dynamics of the missile. Nevertheless we are
looking at multiple options and are certainly working on a Mark 2
version of the Akash.
Saurav Jha: Moving onto the Astra, when can we expect Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) for it?
Avinash
Chander: After the first air-launched trials against an actual target
which will take place in October-November this year, we will continue to
extend its total engagement envelope and by 2015 end we should be
looking at induction clearance.
Saurav Jha: Why was the LRSAM beset with delays? What would your perspective be on this?
Avinash
Chander: LRSAM is a state of the art system. The Armed forces had
actually tried to buy such a system from abroad, but nothing was really
available that would come with satisfactory terms. And that is how we
got into a joint venture with Israel, the system had to be developed ab
initio. So there were issues with respect to radar development, issues
with respect to the actuation system as well which was initially
supposed to be pneumatic but then had to be changed to
electromechanical. Then there was the two pulse motor which was being
done for the first time and that got into certain combustion stability
problems. But the good news is that all those problems have now been
overcome. We launched a massive program on the rocket motor and today we
have a motor which is stable and will be tested shortly.
Saurav
Jha: Many of the new missiles being developed under the missile autonomy
mission will require an on board seeker given their functions. For true
autonomy India will have to be sufficient in that domain at some level.
So in that context has a new detector fabrication facility for seeker
heads been approved?
Avinash Chander: We are committed to setting up a
detector production facility. Normal process of dialogue and tendering,
taking approvals etc is currently underway. We are going to have a
detector production facility for focal point arrays.
On the radio
frequency (RF) seeker front also there is a major thrust. Right from
the device i.e source of RF to the stabilization system, to the
processing, we are starting a national mission kind of thing. Like we
did when it came to developing control laws for the LCA. We have also
set up a national mission for engines, for the 1500
HP
engine. Now we are setting up a national mission for seekers by
involving multiple agencies. We are confident that in the next three
years.
We are starting a national mission for seeker and we are
confident in the next three years we'll have our own seekers in multiple
spectral domains - X band, Ka-band etc.
Saurav Jha: Coming to
strategic missile systems. Missile ejection tests for the Agni-V's
canister were carried out recently. How successful were these and when
will see an actual canisterized launch of the Agni-V?
Avinash
Chander: We had two tests and both were quite successful. Prime
requirement is that there should be full repeatability matching with the
projections. Both requirements have been met and the missile has been
cleared to be launched from the canister. It should happen after the
monsoon sometime.
Saurav Jha: Dr Chander, given that China is
investing in anti-ballistic missile systems, it seems that MIRVs are
becoming an inevitability for greater leakage probability. So when will
see a full blown system test?
Avinash Chander: First of all, there
are many ways of countering a ballistic missile defence. MIRV is one of
the ways of course, i.e. by increasing the numbers. There are other
ways, putting in more intelligence, countermeasures, reducing RCS and so
on. This is like the game between missiles and aircraft. Where you
build better missiles, but that doesn't mean that you don't build
aircraft. I don't think there can be system which can be 100 percent
proof. As we build more and more intelligence, it will have a counter
response.
Saurav Jha: Has the program for a domestic turbofan for the Nirbhay taken off? What is the rating of this engine?
Avinash
Chander: We have taken up the development of this engine and it has
come to the bench test level. It is currently undergoing tests and
evaluation and we are confident that we can do it. It has 400 kg thrust
engine. But once we have the capability we can achieve varied thrust
ratings for engines of this class. Incidentally, Nirbhay is coming up in
a big way.
Saurav Jha: And what is the status of the flagship Turbofan development, the Kaveri?
Avinash
Chander: Kaveri was tested continuously for 53 hours on a flying test
bed in Russia where all the major parameters were proven. There were
certain observations which are now being addressed at the lab level. We
have put up a proposal to the government to continue. So that we have a
viable engine at the end of it. More importantly Kaveri will have to be
modified for use in the unmanned combat aerial vehicle (UCAV). As that
comes under MTCR and nobody will give us engines. So Kaveri will
essentially be a lifeline for that program.
Saurav Jha: What is the status of that program?
Avinash Chander: Designs are getting finalized. We are going through the final stages of reviews.
Saurav Jha: When will we see a prototype of the UCAV? Will we see it by 2017 or so?
Avinash
Chander: I don't think it will come that fast. Aircraft prototyping the
typical cycle is 5-6 years. But we are working on it.
Saurav Jha: Turning to the Kaveri Marine Gas Turbine. What is the status of that program?
Avinash Chander: KMGT has been taken up as a major joint activity between DRDO and industry. Because it has vast potential.
Saurav
Jha: Now while DRDO is a development agency, the real issue in India is
that of effective productionization. In that context, will the missile
autonomy mission see the emergence of private sector players as system
integrators?
Avinash Chander: Today, private industry is very
actively involved in many DRDO programmes in the developmental stage.
The main issue as you have said rightly, is that of their involvement as
system integrators and system deliverers. My feeling is that with a
number of systems coming up in the next few years, since our aim is to
create a vast array of capability in the next 5-7 years, it will not be
possible to do all that with purely government investment. So we will
have to involve the national manufacturing capability for which we have
suggested a military industrial complex to be created, which can become a
partner in development as well as in delivery. We hope that private
industry will be playing a major role in this. Also for many of the
critical systems, there can be parallel lines for export, which can be
run by private industries. If we feel that public sector unit(PSU)
capacity is saturated we can always create a parallel line which is
purely profit driven. They will have to create a market... and once the
need is seen and the profitability is proven, automatically capacity
will enhance itself.
Saurav Jha: Dr Chander doesn't this lead to
that old chicken and egg situation, where the private sector doesn't
come in without assured demand, but to create the demand itself you have
to make upfront investments?
Avinash Chander: I think the scenario
is changing. Because there has been an unnecessary hesitation in
conveying the numbers. Fact is we need numbers. Everybody knows we need
numbers. And if we need numbers, we can convey the numbers to whichever
industry whether public or private, subject to that industry meeting the
specified requirements. If it doesn't meet requirements, we don't
accept, just like any other thing which we go and buy. If something
doesn't meet my specifications, I go and return the item or I don't
accept it at all. So there shouldn't be a worry, that if it doesn't meet
(specifications), as to what one should do. I think a realization has
dawned that if time cycles have to be cut down, if capacity has to be
created, if people have to be drawn in to invest in the creation of
knowledge, it is essential that an integrated planning approach be
adopted. Wherein all stages from development to product support during
the life cycle be treated as an integrated activity. Then only can we be
cost effective, time effective, and can create state of the art
products.
Saurav Jha: The numbers you mention are also attracting
a lot of foreign majors. And India recently liberalized its FDI in
defence norms. But India's experience has shown that no foreign major,
really wants to transfer the latest technology simply in lieu of money,
to put it crudely. So in that sense what do you think FDI in defence can
do for you?
Avinash Chander: When one is in a competitive market, an
induction of this kind (i.e. of FDI), is a sort of trigger. I am
confident that Indian innovation capability, entrepreneurship
capabilities, will create more emphasis on R&D at the industry
level, to be competitive with the FDIs on the anvil. When that happens,
foreign vendors will have no option but to bring in better technology.
Because it would set up a kind of a cycle wherein if they have to
survive they would have to bring in the latest technology. For instance
today that we come to this stage of development in missiles and
aircraft, we find that people are offering a much better level of
technological cooperation to us. The United States for example has come
with the Javelin co-production, co-development offer, which was
unthinkable some time back. And this is all because of the domestic
capability which has been created. I am sure FDI in the defence sector,
will trigger, like it did in the automobile sector. There also nobody
wanted to bring in the technology, but people learnt, they grew. And
they created a competitive eco-system and today you see Indian
automobile companies standing on their own stead.
Saurav Jha: But
in some areas such as drive trains, the Indian automobile sector is not
really at par with the rest of the world. So that suggests that some
technology gaps may yet require public investment to be bridged. Again,
the latest budget has seen a substantial increase in the outlay for
DRDO, but is it enough? Does DRDO today have enough manpower and enough
resources?
Avinash Chander: With the enhanced budget we are
comfortable for the time being. Secondly, for many of the future
developments there will be partnership from the armed forces, from
industry and so on. All the money need not come from DRDO, should not
come from DRDO in fact, because we want commitment from all segments.
Another
important part that you referred to is of course manpower. That is a
serious area of concern. We have been carrying on, but we are finding
serious difficulties because today we are saturated at about 7500
scientists, which basically means that there are a very small number of
scientists per program. We are finding different means for outsourcing
some of the more routine activities, but what for all the major programs
on the anvil we need around 300-350 fresh young minds to be inducted
every year who would bring new ideas, new dynamism. Today we are
inducting hardly seventy people to offset retirements. So we have put up
a case to government for enhancement of manpower and are looking to
induct some 2700 scientists in phases over the next decade, so that our
base can become strong. That base will create the dynamism for the
future.
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